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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 09:55 am |
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Anyone else here have experience with a grazing horse that has diarrhea from eating too much grass? This 5-year-old mare doesn't seem wormy, and I've looked for evidence of parasites in her droppings, but found none. She is exclusively pasture-grazed, and only occasionally gets orchard grass hay or pelleted feed/oat combination.
I've searched the internet for diarrhea in horses, but can't find anything that pertains to possible over-grazing.
Anyone?
Attachment: compressed rear end.jpg (Downloaded 150 times)
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ChampagneTobe
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 12:20 pm |
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Is it just soft, or like water?
CT
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"God forbid I should go to a heaven where there are no horses" R.B. Cunningham Graham
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Dreamer
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 12:54 pm |
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| When was the last time you wormed her? Encysted worms could be the problem. You would need to do a power pak.
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Karal
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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When is the last time she was dewormed? There are a number of reasons a horse can have diarrhea. Spring grass, change in diet, stress, eating a weed or leaves that don't agree with the horse, could be something in the hay.......she could be getting diarrhea from 'occasionally getting grain'.
Is this the horse you are looking to purchase? If so I would get her vet checked. She is very pretty.
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ChampagneTobe
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 01:02 pm |
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If its not worming that needs done, it's something she's eating. If the poops are NOT bursts of liquid, she's not dehydrated, and she's otherwise eating and acting normally, you have some time and I would wait it out and see if it clears up. However, if you've already ruled out worming and she has liquid-only poops, stop whatever extra food you're giving her "occasionally" altogether, or do it in small amounts on a regular basis. In other words, make whatever is inconsistent in her diet consistent, or take it out altogether and see what effect that has. If it's none, have her vet-checked.
If you have the capability to take her temperature, I'd do that as well, out of curiosity.
CT
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"God forbid I should go to a heaven where there are no horses" R.B. Cunningham Graham
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ssecmft
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 02:35 pm |
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| How long have you had her? A big change in diet, if she is new to you, can cause these problems too. Usually, slow introduction to anything is best because their digestive system needs time to adjust. Do you know the last time she was wormed? I worm mine every 3 months. I rotate wormers each time and some times horses will have a different reaction to different wormers. Just some ideas to try to help.
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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 12:22 am |
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Karal: Yes, this is the horse I'm working with and wanting to buy.
She seems healthy, is not dehydrated, and the droppings are not liquid or watery. I haven't witnessed diarrhea, but saw the streaks down the legs and on the tail, and pretty much figured that's what it was.
I wormed her last weekend, just in case. I witnessed fresh droppings last weekend, and again yesterday. No visible signs of worms. Softly formed poop, with lots and lots of grass. She is full-time pasture-bound and has plenty of access to water.
Someone on the forum told me her horse had the same problem, and her vet suggested Probios, from Tractor Supply, and it cleared it up. She said she gave it for five days straight. Only costs $6.50. Anyone know of this?
Thanks, everyone, for your help. I've looked on the internet for a month now, and found nothing that would pertain to a fairly healthy, NOT dehydrated horse.
I love this forum!
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ssecmft
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 01:22 am |
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| If she's healthy and has proper worming, I would say you have the dreaded combination of, green grass, white horse, drops poop on herself, when she goes. I have one of those. She has a white tail to boot. I agree with CT, get her on a regulated diet where her intake is consistant and that may be the answer.
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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 09:43 am |
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Thanks, everyone. If we get a break from the cold weather soon, I'm going to clean her off good and then watch to see if she is (1) pooping on hersef or (2) exhibits diarrhea. If she DOES have diarrhea, I will call the vet.
I am inclined to believe it is the grass and whatever else she eats in her pasture, after getting everyone's input. She had diarrhea when I started taking care of her, and she wasn't getting any kind of treats or supplements, although she did have some hay lying on the ground by her feed bucket!!! She doesn't seem to eat too much of the hay, though. Either way, it's probably either the hay or the grass causing the problem.
All of your comments have definitely made me think this through a little better. I haven't been around horses in 100 years... okay, not that long, but it feels like it. I feel like a newbie all over again, so getting suggestions and opinions from experienced folks is really helpful.
I have confidence we'll be okay now. I'm going to do a pre-purchase exam when the time comes (and update her vaccinations, get the Coggins, etc.), so the vet will be able to test for worms or investigate the diarrhea (if it's still there). Until then, I'm not going to worry too much.
Again, a big thanks!
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Midnight Star
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 11:13 am |
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| I had the same problem with one of my mares. I moved her to an unfertilised pasture (less rich grass) and the problem was gone. Of course after checking worms and general health.
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Nienke
"If your horse says "no", you either asked the wrong question, or asked the question wrong."
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ChampagneTobe
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 12:15 pm |
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My colt Cajun has normal poops, but has squirts right at the end that dribble down his back legs. He's always done it, and it's gross and a hassle to keep him clean, but that's just him. That may be what you're seeing, if you don't otherwise notice pools of liquid that would indicate diarrhea. I would ask the vet about it if it's still continuing when you do the pre-purchase vet check, but I wouldn't waste a vet call about it beforehand.
CT
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"God forbid I should go to a heaven where there are no horses" R.B. Cunningham Graham
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BKTOHRSES
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 12:48 pm |
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The mare this happened to I purchased in the fall of 07. Do not ignore this, this spring my mare had these symptoms. She had been wormed regularly with a rotation method and started in on diarrhea. Kept trying the bios (yogurt works the same and is much cheaper) but she kept losing weight and became very ribby. Finally after consulting the vet found out she did have the encysted worm (bloodworms - just google them they are a very scary worm). We had to do a power pack of Zimectrin Gold for 5 days (some use Panacur instead) then a dose of Quest for the last. She finally now after 7 months is gaining her weight back. My main concern is how much damage they have done to her system in all the wasted time in trying to figure out what was wrong. I wouldn't take a chance.
These worms are in the pasture grass and when the horse eats ingests them. Why not all horses get them is a mystery. With my girl her I believe her immune system dropped since I had just purchased her and she was in a new place. If I had done the powerpac right away I could have avoided all the cost incurred over the summer for her.
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ChampagneTobe
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 01:54 pm |
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The key there, BKTOHRSES, is that your mare was noticeably declining in body condition. You did the right thing in calling the vet out, but personally, if all other outward signs are good, I'd only call the vet after I ruled everything else out. I don't have money to spend to have the vet come and tell me "Yep, he has diarrhea, good call."
CT
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"God forbid I should go to a heaven where there are no horses" R.B. Cunningham Graham
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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 12:11 am |
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Well, this mare is anything but skinny. In fact, she's a little fat. The trainer that visited her the other day said she is a little overweight, and DOES NOT seem wormy. She said horses get a low pot-belly with heavy parasites. She also said the coat was healthy and all other signs seemed good. We picked through fresh poop for ANY SIGNS of infestation, and couldn't find anything. The horse acts fine, eats, plays, isn't dehydrated, and shows no other signs of illness.
Campagne: You may have an interesting point. Perhaps she is pooping while standing on an hill, and just messes herself up? I will watch "from the rear" a little more closely when I see her tomorrow... maybe she does squirt on her legs at the end. Hmm... what a subject, huh?!!! As if talking about poop wasn't enough with our parents and grandparents... now we're publicly discussing it for our horses. Too much!
I have another question... for all those who are (1) sensitive or (2) picky about terminology, you may want to leave now...
I know mares have an estrus cycle, like every other female mammal. However, how often, how long, and do they bleed? I hate asking these kinds of questions, but I can't find THAT subject in my books or on the internet either!!!
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ssecmft
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 12:34 am |
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| Mares usually cycle once a month, just like women. Some get crabby, some you would never know unless you check. They don't 'bleed', persay, but they do pass fluid, and some, I must say, litterally squirt. Some folks on the board give herbal remedies to thier horses during thier heat to calm them, others have different ways of dealing with issues. Some mares, when pastured with geldings will come into heat, some don't. I have 3 mares. Each came in when my gelding was brought into the mix. He was only 2 and thought he could help but soon as the girls figured out different, they chased him off. I have 1 that gets crabby, but it only lasts a couple of days. I have 1 that 'winks' during her cycle, and 1 that never shows any signs at all. So, just like us, they are all different.
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BKTOHRSES
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 12:50 am |
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| We didn't notice any body decline until the spring. I forgot to mention that. The bloodworms were contracted over the winter and sprung into action full force in the spring. So she had basically carried them throughout the winter even though she was wormed. We figure her immune system had dropped during the winter and with the thick hair she didn't show a huge weight loss. No matter how much quality feed was feed into her she kept losing weight. For a cost of around $50 for the wormer power pack I could have saved over $700. (Feed, extra hay, probiotics) By the time the diarrhea started the worms had pretty well established themselves. She had loose stools for over 6 months. I am not saying call a vet right away, just be aware the problem occurred.
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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 11:21 am |
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ssecmft wrote: Mares usually cycle once a month, just like women. Some get crabby, some you would never know unless you check. They don't 'bleed', persay, but they do pass fluid, and some, I must say, litterally squirt. Some folks on the board give herbal remedies to thier horses during thier heat to calm them, others have different ways of dealing with issues. Some mares, when pastured with geldings will come into heat, some don't. I have 3 mares. Each came in when my gelding was brought into the mix. He was only 2 and thought he could help but soon as the girls figured out different, they chased him off. I have 1 that gets crabby, but it only lasts a couple of days. I have 1 that 'winks' during her cycle, and 1 that never shows any signs at all. So, just like us, they are all different.
Wow, JUST like women!!! LOL. Thanks for the information. I will have to get to know her better. I've had one person tell me she cannot get near her mare during her heat. She says she's just crazy and impossible to ride at that time.
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MustangSally
G.O.G Community Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 11:23 am |
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BKTOHRSES wrote: We didn't notice any body decline until the spring. I forgot to mention that. The bloodworms were contracted over the winter and sprung into action full force in the spring. So she had basically carried them throughout the winter even though she was wormed. We figure her immune system had dropped during the winter and with the thick hair she didn't show a huge weight loss. No matter how much quality feed was feed into her she kept losing weight. For a cost of around $50 for the wormer power pack I could have saved over $700. (Feed, extra hay, probiotics) By the time the diarrhea started the worms had pretty well established themselves. She had loose stools for over 6 months. I am not saying call a vet right away, just be aware the problem occurred.
I have heard of the Power Pack from another trainer I was talking to last week. I'm wondering, though, if the horse ISN'T infested, will something that strong do any damage? Can you over-worm a horse by worming when you don't have a reason to?
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TessieB
Ranch Hand
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 12:01 pm |
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Lots of good advice so far about chronic diarrhea. Lush pastures cause diarrhea. Parasites. Bacterial infections: salmonella infections-some horses are carriers and will become symptomatic when stressed. Poor chewing habits due to mis-aligned teeth, retained caps, mouth pain. Weed ingestion or acorn ingestion. Chronic organ disease can cause malabsorbtion.
First thing I would do is take a fresh fecal sample to the vet and have them test for parasites, do a culture for salmonella or other bacteria, have the teeth checked. Some chronic cribbers can have diarrhea, and ulcers can cause loose stools. Although horses look stress-free in a pasture there are herd dynamics we are not aware of until feeding time.
If all this does not solve the problem the vet may want to do bloodwork to check for other diseases. You've already dewormed the mare, and many folks do use the Panacur Power Pack which is considered a safe method for a heavily parasitized horse. Some folks use a daily dewormer. And yes, you can over deworm a horse. Remember Quest? People claimed the product was killing horses. It wasn't the product it was the people using the product and thinking, "well if this much is good, even more is better". Gotta follow label directions and KNOW THE WEIGHT of your horse.
If the diarrhea continues you can have endscopy done to see the intestines and take a sample of the intestinal wall. Ultrasound may help or radiographs. This is usually done at an equine hospital.
In the photo the mare 'looks' healthy and she just might have a case of a too rich diet. Removing sweet feed from her diet may help, and adding a course hay may add bulk to her diet.
She is a pretty thing though....
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I scream, you scream, we all scream for a gaiting machine!
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shags
G.O.G Community Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 73 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 01:05 pm |
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| IMO unless the manure looks like cow pies, it isn't diarrhea. Some have a little liquid squirt at the end of evacuating, as was mentioned previously, but that isn't anything to worry about; it's just messy if it dribbles. I had a TWH that did that. My fox trotter gets the real squirts when he gets himself whipped up. There's a huge difference.
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